I just read this study I think for the first time. I’ve read so many it’s hard for me to keep up. @brandon does/did a great job laying this out. I know God did the work and we thank Him for it!
I have never I guess entertained God not “knowing” something. Many ask all the time does God know who is going to be save and who is not. @brandon brought up and brought out Abraham willing to sacrifice Issac, and that God didn’t know which way or if Abraham would be willing to go through with it. That was amazing to me.
I’ve enjoyed being able to think about the world that once was… my role, others role, and how and what third we may have been a part of. It’s created so much more and helped me understand the bigger picture more.
Wow, Todd. Your comments are thought-provoking. Our Father amazes me in so many ways. I often ponder the notion of free-will, and the fact that we have a choice to follow Him or Satan. He leaves the choice up to us. It’s a privilege to serve Him.
I sometimes think that the tempting of Abraham was for our benefit and God knew how it would turn out. It shows his faith to direct ours.
It is like Psalms 22. Shows the future which God had to know. There are many other examples.
Years ago, someone asked, “If God knows the future, why not just get on with it and keep those who He knows will be faithful, the sheep, and rid the goats?”
The answer given was to show everyone who chose what side and there can’t be anyone saying, how do you know that was my choice, not fair. It is a proof to all. Total exposure, no excuses.
Same as the millennium. Living under God’s laws, totally enforced, will show that it can be done and the results of it. When Satan is released, I think God knows who will stay loyal to Him. It takes the tempting out of the equation so there is no excuse as to the choice being made.
My thoughts, if you read the Old Testament, you will see time and time again God proving the Israelites to see how they would respond. It happened so many times, it really gets old to read.
Then, remember what God told Abraham,
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
God admitted that He only knew what Abraham was going to do after the fact. Not before. So God couldn’t know our actions beforehand. Otherwise, why keep going through the same tired cycle over and over again? God did tell Moses before he passed away, the people are going to rebel again. God knew then, as He already witnessed it so many times before.
As for Psalms 22, God can make the future come to pass however He see’s fit. Like Bible prophecy, for example. Also, God altered Pharaoh’s free will in Egypt numerous times so God’s will would come to pass. God even appoints our leaders for that same reason. On and on it goes.
I do believe God has a good idea of what people will do, but not absolutely. Otherwise, if God already knew what each of us would do. That someone was going to be raped, murdered, or tortured this very moment, and He let it happen. Then I would say He is an evil God, but He is not, (Psalms 5:4).
It makes a lot of sense, Todd. I remember when I first learned about the first earth age back in 2011. I was doing a Bible study via television with the late Pastor Arnold Murray. Everything he discussed about the topic was supported via scripture. I was amazed at how everything started to make sense. See, I was raised in church but never heard about the first earth age. I thank Father for opening our eyes to his loving truth.
Just through reading Scripture and something I noticed. More recently, I’ve gone back through and started reading from cover to cover and I really picked up on God proving the Israelites. So that added to it for me.
I think the Abraham account is pretty important, and very bold in the way God explained it, “Now I know.” I’ve shared that with a lot of people who have had faith issues. Most Christians believe God already knows every detail of our life beforehand, which is fine.
However, it really creates faith issues for people. A lot of parents have reached out over the years with issues about their kids, in some cases, adult kids. The children always have issues with that common belief. To them, there is no point of life then. If God already knows our actions, but allows people to suffer anyway.
So I think the Abraham account is a nice gem to help address those faith concerns.
Thank you for your input on this. I will have to ponder this some more. I do see your point which is very strong.
The reason I always figured God could see the future was the fact that both He and Christ knew our thoughts and motives. The Pharisees are a big example. Christ knew their thoughts and motives before they said anything. Christ knew Judas was going to betray Him. Maybe not exactly how but He knew he would go to the Pharisees.
Going back to the statement that if God knew someone was going to be raped by seeing the future and did nothing, he could be considered evil, but we know He is not: couldn’t we also say the same thing if He knew someone was going to do it reading their mind, so to speak, and didn’t intervene, wouldn’t that fall into the same category? When the terrorists boarded the planes, I would think He knew what they were going to do.
The question has been asked many times why He lets these things happen or doesn’t stop them when they get started and my response has been free will. He doesn’t like or want it, but He won’t be a puppeteer.
Thoughts?
Thank You for the work you do giving those who truly love the Father a place to study, fellowship and share thoughts for the building of our faith and scriptural knowledge.
I remember a pastor I had in the early 90’s, I asked him about something similar. About if God knows what we will do before we do it. His answer was something like, " I think God looks away so He doesn’t know". Not sure if he believed what we are saying here now. But that was an explanation I could live with at the time. This story hammers it home for me.
This takes free will to the tenth degree. In so much as God doesn’t even know what we will decide until we do. How exciting for Him and yet how disappointing at times for Him.
I like what you brought up here. Im getting the feeling personally, that I don’t really and haven’t understood the power of free will. I thought I did, but its deeper than I ever expected.
You’re sure welcome, and thanks for being a part of it.
Absolutely!
However, they were thinking it, so Jesus knew it. Christ himself said, “God knoweth your hearts,” (Luke 16:15). The word “hearts” there means, “thoughts or feelings” of the mind. Judas knew well beforehand he was going to betray Jesus. Naturally, Jesus would have known that as well due to the verse I just shared.
Then, there’s another angle here. Whose will was it that Jesus be crucified?
God’s.
It was God’s plan to have Jesus crucified. No one else made that come to pass except for God. So then ask yourself, did God harden Judas’ heart like He did for Pharaoh?
Who knows, but we know it was God’s plan for Jesus to be sacrificed for us, (Is 53:4, 10, Act 2:23, Rom 3:25, 8:32, see: Why Did Jesus Die For Us?). So then, God would intervene however required in order to make that come to pass.
I think that’s where we get hung up sometimes. With what God knows about us, and what God does to make His Word materialize into reality. Prophecy in my opinion, is not that God already knows this or that will happen. It’s that He ensures it does happen.
You make a good point, but I don’t believe so.
We have free will to make our own choices. If someone chooses to commit a crime, they made that decision of their own free will, and they will be judged for that. However, God only knows what the person will do, once they think of it.
The point here, God didn’t know prior to their own thoughts.
If that is true, then we can all see why we are living this life. That we need to live to make our decision, which we are judged by.
Now, compare that with what many Christians believe. That God already knows everything. That God already knows what your sons, son, son, son, will do, even though said child hasn’t even been thought of yet. If God knew what my future descendants were going to do, every step of the way, before they are even born.
Then why are we even here?
There would be no point at all. If God knew thousands of years in advance, our every action before the fact, and allowed it, that’s evil. God could simply show us what we will do, destroy the bad, keep the good and skip this whole life.
The very basics of Christianity say we must accept Jesus and live a Godly life to be saved. That means we have to go through a process in order to be justified and saved. Also, think of sinners who did commit crimes, but who later repented. We know even the Angels in Heaven repent for one sinner who repents. Why would they do that, if God already knew?
Volusional free will is part of what God gave us as children of the Living God those that were chosen from before the foundation of the world to serve him in righteousness. Not automatons… we are more than conquerors to him that loved us and created us in the image of the only begotten son!! No he not that we shall judge the angels?? Greetings to the 12 tribes scattered around!! Shalom alaikum glory to our living Adonai
#volitional LOL stupid voice Rec mumble jumble men of Pride she’ll take a big tumble!!
I think there is a huge difference between prophesy and God testing ones faith. He tested Abraham’s faith, and he allowed Satan to test Job’s faith. I think he knew their hearts and would not have had them suffer more than he knew they could bare. Concerning prophesy I believe it is absolute, whatever is written is exactly what will happen. As for evil, those things are done by evil people who have chosen on their own free will to serve the evil one. When an evil person takes the life of one of Gods people , they will live forever in heaven. Yep, this a very dangerous place. The stronger our faith, the more we look forward to leaving this place.
at least that’s how I look at it. My opinion and and a dollar bill will almost buy you a cup of coffee.
I am delighted with this thread. I would like to explain my vision, but in this and other much issues I just can not know it. We are here because God want it. We are created for the good pleasure of His will. When I get to a closed street (callejón sin salida): Proberbs 3:5 Trust in The Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Your comments are thought-provoking. Our Father amazes me in so many ways. I often ponder the notion of free-will, and the fact that we have a choice to follow Him or Satan. He leaves the choice up to us. It’s a privilege to serve Him.