No, Jeffrey, that’s not at all what I said. I apologize if I worded it in a way that failed to convey what I intended to say. At the time of my post, I had been up all day and all night, so that may be why. I’ve also been up all night at the time of this response, but I’ll try to do better.
What I intended to convey is that if you and anyone else that read Brandon’s source article that preceded this conversation thread actually believes as he does, then, yes, you accept and expect to go through the 7-year period (dispensation) that the Bible calls, “the Tribulation” (Jesus’s Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24:3-28) and “Daniel’s 70th week” (Daniel 9:24-27).
Regarding the Scripture reference I just listed in the paragraph above for where in the Bible Jesus tells his disciples about the coming Tribulation period, Jesus addresses the events of the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation in Matthew 24:3-14 and the events of the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation (Great Tribulation) in Matthew 24:15-28).
I hope this follow up to your question serves to explain the intent of my statement in my original post that I worded poorly as, “If you all choose to have a different understanding and look forward to enduring the wrath of God, that’s between you and God Almighty.” Oh, and by the way, the use of the term, “look forward,” began sometime in the 1200’s A.D. and simply meant to look towards the future versus looking back to the past. The context of it somehow always implying a positive outcome or something to be happy about evolved much later. I probably should have said exactly what I meant, which would’ve been, “…and are looking ahead to enduring the wrath of God…”
Hmmm…an interesting blend of light-hearted sarcasm and genuine conversation, Brandon.
As with the others that responded to my original post here, I’m happy to comply with your requests; but due to my current schedule, it may take me a few days to give it the attention it deserves. Please be patient with me in the meantime.
Ah ok cool. Ya i just read it wrong. Yea i just see it as if you follow Jesus the best you can do Gods will he knows your heart. I believe in the firmament while many believe nasa over the Bible. No where does it say if you don’t believe in the firmament you go to hell. Many are deceived in many diff ways. No way I’ll discover all of satans lies but if you are trying i think God sees and your heart.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
If the believers are all gone during the tribulation, who are those being delivered up for a testimony of Christ as well as who is the woman and the remnant of her seed that satan goes after?
Your question:
“If the believers are all gone during the tribulation, who are those being delivered up for a testimony of Christ as well as who is the woman and the remnant of her seed that satan goes after?”
Those being delivered up for a testimony of Christ are BELIEVING ISRAEL - only those Jews who believe that Jesus was, in fact, their promised Messiah. Obviously, the chief priests, practicing Pharisees, and practicing Sanhedrin are not part of believing Israel because they were the ones who crucified their Messiah. The same is currently true today…most of the Jews don’t believe that Jesus was anything more than a prophet, if that. The same will also be true during the Tribulation.
In all the Revelation verses you cited, John was writing about the remnant - the elect who answered the call and believe that Jesus of Nazareth was and is their promised Messiah (Revelation 12:17).
Who was Jesus talking to in Matthew 24:9? You must rightly divide the word of truth or you’ll continue to be confused and carried about by every wind of doctrine (2 Timothy 2:15 and Ephesians 4:14).
Jesus was clearly talking to His disciples (Matthew 24:3), and His disciples were BELIEVERS who were following Christ everywhere he went during his earthly ministry. He called them His “little flock” (Luke 12:32) because they were His sheep and they knew His voice and they followed Him (John 10:27).
Every word in the Bible is FOR you and your edification and knowledge of God, but not every word was written TO you, as in applying to your walk in Christ. You must come to an understanding that when anyone is saved by grace through faith since Acts 9 (Saul’s conversion by Jesus on the road to Damascus), they are members of the church, the body of Christ. They are not members of the church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38), nor are they members of the little flock or believing Israel in the Tribulation. Jesus wasn’t talking to you at anytime in His earthly ministry because you are not part of the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24).
Jesus started talking to you through Paul’s epistles. And if you don’t learn to rightly divide, you’ll likely get hung up in Romans chapters 9 through 11. Paul addressed the believing body of Christ in Rome that was comprised of former Jews and Gentiles (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11). In those chapters, Paul is speaking of Israel and some of her history for instruction. The former Jews in the Body could relate to the history and learn why the law and a works-based salvation no longer applies to them, while the non-Jews in the Body had a lot to learn about where their brethren were coming from and some of the struggles they faced in their new-found faith in the blood of Jesus as the perfect sacrifice and final atonement for their sins. Enough said on that.
I think I’ve more than answered your question and addressed the Scriptures you cited in your response to me. I hope you will prayerfully consider all I’ve said here and do the research for yourself with a new perspective as a member of the body of Christ. I encourage you to watch some videos by Justin Johnson of Grace Ambassadors and David Reid of Columbus Bible Church.
The Israelites were chosen to take the word of God to the world. No other reason. They failed. The wicked vinedressers. John the Baptist came to pave the way and Christ came to get the mission rolling since the “chosen” to do so, wanted the ways of Babylon instead of the truth. If you can’t get your own to work, you go to foreigners, the gentiles.
When Christ left the temple in Matthew, He was not alone. The crowds surrounded Him everywhere He went, except when He made a point to seek solitude.
The statement of the destruction of the temple was given to all those around Him. Only later, as you say, some of His disciples wanted to know the timeline of the end of the world, flesh age, and His coming. Mark tells us that not all His disciples were present when He went through the list of things that will occur, in the end days.
This list of events lines up with the seals in Revelation. We know He is talking of the tribulation and it should be obvious that Christ knew they would not witness all these events in their lifetime. If this was specifically meant for the disciples at that time, it stands to reason it would go forward to His disciples, the believers, during the trib and race would not be a factor.
We see in Luke 12 Christ had an enormous crowd with Him as He taught. He talked to all but did address His disciples in some verses and refers to others as friends. To say Christ only had 12 at this time limits His effectiveness. Anyone who followed Him other than the 12 were disciples. His own 12 rebuked other disciples for doing the same work and Christ put a stop to it. Peter asked if the parable was just for the 12 and it wasn’t, He wants us all to be servants. He sent out 70 in Luke 10 to do His work.
Christ used the Samaritan woman at the well, as a disciple, she was waiting for The Christ, and through her many believed in Jesus. Being one of the sheep, she heard His voice along with the others in her city.
The Canaanite women knew who Christ was. After testing her faith, He healed her daughter. Did she know His voice?
We know by the time of Revelation, after the cross, race was not a factor. You were either spiritual Israel or you were not. (Romans 10:12) Historically, before Christ, being the offspring of Abraham was not an absolute credential. The Arabs had Abraham as their father. You still needed the faith. Same as today. We know gentiles did convert, even through the Exodus.
If those being delivered up are believing Israel, and as Paul stated, race was of no effect, that would include all spiritual believers. Today, the term Jew can mean several things. Most of the “Jews” in Israel today are not of the 12 tribes.
Also, what constitutes a 12-tribe person. What blood level would be enough. Many of the Israelites were not pure blood, as far back as the Exodus. Caleb’s father was one from the heathen tribes that was to be destroyed. His Judean lineage came from his mother.
The elect is not necessarily true Israel. (Romans 9:6)
Let us assume only those being delivered up are true Israel blood. We know the “woman” represents Israel and is protected. Satan then goes after her seed, the believers. The term elect has different views also. The one view takes away the free will of man, although God is not going to elect someone deficient to His work.
Mark 13 tells us after the trib He will send the angels and gather His elect.
Elect G1588 - From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few arechosen. (Wedding feast Parable)
Chosen G1588 - From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Your view, if the pre-trib rapture is true, seems to be that only those who are non-Israel, get raptured. This would be a selective rapture and makes no sense. God is not a respecter of persons. Also, if the rapture were true, why all the different interpretations of it?
Those chosen are the believers. God works for the good of those who love Him. Saying true Israel will be delivered up and Satan goes after the elect, which would be the believers, doesn’t leave anyone left to be raptured, unless it is all about race.
I’m not going to argue with you over the words of God that I’ve shared (Titus 3:9). I carefully responded to you in detail and included scripture references relevant to the question you asked me to answer. You, on the other hand, basically just blurted a bunch of Scriptures back at me; and, to me, you don’t sound convinced of anything you said (2 Timothy 2:16).
You often repeat some form of, “…it doesn’t make sense.” Of course it doesn’t make sense to you because you aren’t rightly dividing the word of truth. Lean not on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6) or the precepts of men (Colossians 2:8). Did you even consider doing an earnest, prayerful study of the supporting scriptures I responded with? If you are saved by grace through faith and sealed with the Holy Spirit, then you have the same teacher that I have. He’s not going to teach you contrary to what He’s taught me if you humbly and patiently approach this with a teachable heart. If what I shared with you isn’t in the KJV Bible, which is always my source, then simply toss it and embrace whatever doctrine you decide sounds correct to your human understanding (…so it “makes sense.”). Like I said, it’s ultimately between you and God anyway.
Although you didn’t identify the actual scriptures by book-chapter-verse(s), your response was a narrative of a number of passages that you referenced as the basis for what you believe. I should’ve been more specific as to what I was experiencing as I read your response…sorry. As I was reading, the associated scripture passages flashed in my head; hence, why I said what I said.
I read your response three times over a couple of days before posting to avoid being hasty. I actually wrote several draft versions of my response over that time and finally posted a much shorter version. I’m very much aware that I’m the “odd man out” here, as the saying goes. Most, if not all, engaged in this thread seem to believe as Brandon does, or at least give it a high level of credibility. I have yet to post my response to Brandon, but it’s coming.
Regardless of what one believes about the rapture or its timing, it is not a matter of heresy if believers disagree. A person’s fidelity to Christ does not depend on a belief in a two-stage return of Christ or a singular return. When Christ returns and the church is with him in glory, nobody will be disappointed or argue about how or when it all occurred.
The passages I talked about was to show that when the disciples were present and Christ addressed them, others were there also. We are all called to be servants. He used some, considered as dogs, for His ministry.
Most here do not separate, in the last days, the Jews and Gentiles having different prophecies pertaining to them. We are all one in Christ, bloodline does not matter.
It is not that we believe as Brandon does, it is how we read and discern the scriptures for ourselves. We discern equally the same.
I think we must also keep in mind that the subject of 1 Thess 4:13… is the dead. Those who are now dead, believers, before the 2nd coming. That was the concern the Thessalonians had at that time, not the return of Christ.
Prior to Paul being given the gospel to preach to the “uncircumcision,” (see Galatians 2:7 - proves there is more than one gospel), the gospel of the kingdom was being preached by Jesus in His earthly ministry, and the 12 after Jesus’s ascension to the Father. The gospel of the kingdom was NOT a salvation gospel. It was a witness to all nations that the kingdom was in their midst in the presence of the promised Messiah on earth and, subsequently, the end times were very near (Matthew 24:14). The kingdom was “at hand.” Remember, the plan of salvation that God progressively made known to man was always for the Israelites. Gentiles could only attain salvation through them by becoming proselytes and adhering to the law. The “new covenant” that God promised to Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-40; Hebrews 8:8, 13, 12:24) is to be implemented when the kingdom of God is established on earth, after the Tribulation period. This is when Israel’s salvation becomes a reality.
The gospel given to Paul is indeed a salvation gospel. Salvation is now being extended to the Gentiles apart from Israel. God, in His infinite mercy and unconditional love, is offering immediate salvation to all of mankind (Jews and Gentiles alike) by His grace through faith in the blood atonement of His son, Jesus Christ. It’s a gift, and all we have to do is believe and receive - no works required. This is what makes it a new gospel.
The rapture of the church - the body of Christ - is a “mystery” because it was never revealed by God to anyone prior to Paul. The KJB defines “mystery” as “hidden wisdom” in 1 Corinthians 2:7. The rapture ("harpazo " in Greek for a sudden catching away , to seize by force, or snatching out and away) shows up in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, as well as 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Please remember that there is more than one church spoken of in the Bible. That’s why I always clarify which church (assembly) I’m referring to when I use that word. Also, there’s more than one “rapture” in the Bible - something like eight or nine if I remember correctly. Please do your own study on this.
The “mystery” church is the “new creature” of 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Ephesians 3:1-12. We are each members of Christ’s body, and He is the head…we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The church - the body of Christ - never existed prior to Jesus’s commission of Saul / Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles. We were established with one purpose while we’re on this earth and that is to be ambassadors for Christ and share the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, not of works, lest any man should boast.
This is a simple one to explain…Jesus wasn’t talking to you in Mark 13:23. He was answering the question posed by Peter, James, John, and Andrew, who were JEWS of the nation of Israel. They weren’t former Gentiles saved by the grace of God through faith. Besides, the mystery revealed to Paul starting in Acts chapter 9 hadn’t even happened yet!
Jesus was speaking of the Tribulation period, and the Tribulation period is all about Israel as to the events and everything related to those events. Think about it. Is every Christian going to be in Jerusalem or its vicinity during the Tribulation so they can flee to the mountains and be sustained by God? NO! That’s just one example of what I mean when I say that Jesus wasn’t talking TO you. Here’s another: God told Noah to build an ark. Are YOU supposed to build an ark? Why not? Because God wasn’t talking TO you.
I’m going to stop there because it seems I keep repeating myself over and over when I respond to each of you who initially disagreed with my first post in this forum.
God bless you and keep your feet on the straight and narrow path to glory.
Yes, I agree with your statement. However, the whole point of this thread is because Brandon posted the question, “If the Rapture is True, What’s the Point of the Tribulation?” So to state what you did and direct it at me seems pointless and irrelevant. Perhaps you should’ve pointed that out to Brandon for asking the question in the first place.
How do you know that others were there also? You didn’t cite specific book-chapter-verse, so I’m not sure to what, exactly, you were referring. But my point is this, sNOwflakes, when the four gospels were written, they were still under the law. It was still “Old Testament” rules when Jesus walked the earth. AND, more importantly, Jesus wasn’t talking TO you. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel when he walked the earth. We have to keep this in mind when rightly dividing the word of truth. You keep ignoring the fact that Paul is our apostle, and Jesus appeared to Paul and gave him a NEW gospel and an entirely NEW plan of salvation for Gentile believers than what was the case when He walked the earth. Jesus changed the rules in Acts chapter 9! A completely NEW dispensation was ushered in when Jesus did this. Do you understand the implications of this??? I mean, do you really comprehend this, because your responses to me say otherwise.
Yes, that’s becoming quite obvious to me. And I’m sorry to be the one to point it out to you, but Scripture disagrees with your last sentence. The only Jews and Gentiles that are “one in Christ” and, in fact, cease to be seen as Jews and Gentiles by God, are those that are saved during this current dispensation. They were viewed as being very different in the eyes of God when Jesus walked the earth and all the way back to the time of Abraham. Even the proselytes were treated as being different despite having adopted the Jewish way of life.
Oh, and again, it should come as no surprise to any student of the Bible that bloodlines matter very much to God, e.g. Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, Acts 26:7, James 1:1, Revelation 7:4; Revelation 21:12.
I didn’t say you believe as you do because of Brandon. I said you believe AS Brandon does, i.e., in the same way about this specific topic in the thread. You became defensive because you failed to correctly read and comprehend what I typed. And that’s quite a statement to say that you “discern equally the same.” You’re really going way out on a limb, as the saying goes. Although, there’s only about 4 or 5 of you that have expressed strong support thus far. In any case, I strongly encourage you to reconsider your interpretation in light of 2 Tim 2:15 and your sincere desire to understand the truth contained in God’s word.
1 Thess 4:13-18 is about the rapture, NOT the 2nd coming of Christ to the earth to save Israel from her enemies. Some of those in the church at Thessalonica were concerned about what was going to happen to their loved ones that had passed away regarding the big picture of eternity (v13). Paul is exhorting them to be of good cheer because their loved ones who were believers would be returning with Jesus in the air to meet them (v14). Verse 17 confirms that this is the rapture event, not the 2nd coming of Christ. The Lord Jesus never touches down on the earth at the time of the rapture of the church. He touches down on the Mount of Olives when he returns to save Israel and destroy her enemies. Paul further encourages them to comfort each other with what he was telling them (v18).
@G_Hall, I genuinely appreciate you sharing your perspective here. It’s wonderful when we can engage in discussions about God’s Word, even if we have differing viewpoints.
However, I wanted to mention, that if you’re not careful, you can talk yourself out of your faith in the Bible. Not just you, but anyone who shares some of your beliefs. You’ve mentioned several times that “Jesus wasn’t talking TO you”…
I believe we all comprehend that Christ engaged in numerous conversations with the Disciples and others, and His conversations were not spoken directly to us, a future generation. However, if His words are not applicable to us, then why should we bother believing in the Bible?
In the Old Testament, God addressed the Israelites, not us, so what’s the purpose of reading those Books? Similarly, in the New Testament, He did not address us either.
When James emphasized, “Faith without works is dead,” he was not speaking to us, but to the “twelve tribes which are scattered abroad,” (James 1:1). Furthermore, Paul’s teachings were not intended for us, but for the churches of his time.
Fortunately, Christ reassured us, saying,
Mrk 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Then again, Jesus wasn’t addressing us directly, so why are we discussing or even sharing the Gospel with the world? When you delve deeper, no prophet was speaking directly to us, at least according to your professed beliefs.
Sir, I kindly request that you and those reading this, consider these thoughts as you study Scripture. Thank you.
I sincerely appreciate your concern over me losing my faith in the Bible, Brandon. I can assure you that my faith in the words of God recorded in the KJV Bible has never been stronger than it is today in the almost 50 years of my walk in Christ. It’s because the Holy Spirit taught me how to rightly divide His truth and gave me the understanding that Jesus’ earthly ministry was for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, NOT Gentiles. God had a completely different plan of salvation for Gentiles that he had yet to reveal to any other being when Jesus walked the earth. It was “hidden wisdom” - what I’ve been referring to as “mystery.” This is the definition of the word “mystery” in 1 Cor. 2:7.
Something for you to consider regarding 2 Tim. 2:15: Paul wouldn’t have given a directive to “rightly divide” the word if there wasn’t the possibility of wrongly dividing it. Additionally, that same directive uses the Greek word translated as “rightly divide” only once in the entire New Testament. It is Strong’s G3718, and the Strong’s definition is “to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message): – rightly divide.”
To me, that implies that anyone who teaches others from the word of God has a grave responsibility before God to be certain he or she is correctly interpreting the context and meaning that God intends to convey to the hearer. To me, this means that when we study God’s word, we are never hasty in arriving at that context and meaning because we are obligated before God to seek His wisdom and approval before daring to teach others what we’ve learned (“Study to shew thyself approved unto God,”…). This may take months and even years to achieve for any particular verse or topic of study. God is going to hold us accountable for what we teach others when we stand before Him at the judgment seat of Christ, and I want to avoid the shame (if at all possible) that I’ll most certainly feel when that time comes for misrepresenting God’s words in even the smallest way (…“a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,”…).
While you may “comprehend that Christ engaged in numerous conversations with the Disciples and others”…, you seem to be failing to understand the bigger picture of what I’m trying to help you see when I say that. The bigger picture is not the specific conversation, per se, but that Jesus and the twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, NOT the gospel of grace given to Paul. These were two different gospels! The gospel of the kingdom was also called the gospel of the circumcision, and Paul’s gospel (gospel of grace) was also called the gospel of the uncircumcision (Gal. 2:7-9).
Even more significant is the fact that, had Israel’s leaders believed on Jesus to be their promised Messiah as prophesied, the prophetic time clock would have continued uninterrupted and the kingdom would have been established on earth within that generation’s lifetime (Matt. 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32).
But they didn’t believe, even though they were given many opportunities to do so; even after Jesus had been crucified and ascended into heaven, they could’ve repented and believed and events would’ve moved forward to establish the kingdom on earth in that generation’s lifetime.
And here’s the part that I’ve been trying to help you all see: Because they rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God intervened in the prophetic timeline and paused it by revealing His mystery plan of salvation for the Gentiles to Paul and appointed him as the apostle to the Gentiles. This ushered in a new dispensation where the Gentiles no longer had to come to God through the Jews as proselytes, but could now come to God directly in Christ as a member of His body. And all they had to do was BELIEVE the gospel given to Paul by Jesus that was being preached to them (1 Cor. 15:3-4). AND…
This meant that the gospel of the kingdom (gospel of the circumcision) that was preached by Jesus on earth and the twelve after He had ascended was no longer in effect because God had paused the prophetic time clock and revealed the mystery that He’d kept hidden since before the world began. The kingdom would no longer be established on earth in that generation’s lifetime. Peter and the twelve’s commission to the circumcision gradually phased out, and the last time we read of Peter’s ministry is in Acts 15. They had remained in Jerusalem, and it was Paul and his brethren in the newly formed church - the body of Christ - who took the new gospel of grace to the world, converting both Jews and Gentiles into the body of Christ.
I’ve answered part of your question in the paragraphs above as to why Jesus’ words weren’t being directed to us, the body of Christ. Regarding the other part of your question as to why you should “bother believing in the Bible,” Paul’s epistles ARE directed to us; so we should diligently take them to heart and apply his directives to our walk in Christ as we go about the business of being ministers of reconciliation to a lost and dying world (2 Cor. 2:17-21).
As for the rest of the Bible, we need to read and study it because we may recognize patterns of behavior, punishment, and retribution that we should consider for our own lives today, in a completely different dispensation. The Bible says that these things happened for our examples (actual word used is “ensample”) and for our admonition (1 Cor. 10:11; Philippians 3:17; 1 Thess. 1:7; 2 Thess. 3:9; 1 Peter 5:3; 2 Peter 2:6).
Please refer to my response in the previous paragraph and read the Scripture references I provided to answer both of these questions.
That’s absolutely true.
That statement is absolutely NOT true because Paul wrote to those who were saved by the gospel that he preached - the new gospel that Christ gave him to preach to kings, Gentiles, and the children of Israel (Acts 9:15). This gospel is the same as how we are saved today. Anyone who believed on the gospel preached by Paul was saved by grace through faith by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ - the same as we are today. We are all members of the church, the body of Christ; and the same doctrine applies to us today as it did to our brethren when Paul walked the earth.
The “churches of his time” of which you speak were simply locations, e.g. the church at Rome, the church at Thessalonica, the church at Corinth, etc. The “churches” as you put it were all ONE church, which was and is the body of Christ - the mystery revealed to Paul that was held secret in God the Father until the time was right. We are still in the same dispensation as Paul and the brethren of his time, and we’re all members of one body in Christ. Most certainly, Paul’s teachings are intended for us.
No, Christ didn’t reassure US in Mark 16:15. You’re taking the verse out of context, Brandon. Mark 16:14, which is the beginning verse of several pertaining to Jesus commissioning His apostles, specifically states that the resurrected Jesus “appeared unto the eleven.” He did NOT appear to any other disciples except His apostles as they were sitting at supper.
Not only that, but the gospel He sent them to preach was the gospel of the kingdom, NOT the gospel of grace that He later gave to Paul. And the gospel of the kingdom is for Israel only, not Gentiles. The eleven were sent to preach the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews who were still scattered over the known world at that time. At the time when Jesus commissioned the eleven (Mark 16:15-18), he had not yet risen to sit at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)…he ascended immediately following, having never commissioned the eleven to preach any other gospel but the gospel of the kingdom intended for Israel.
Hopefully, we aren’t sharing the gospel of the kingdom with the world because it no longer applies in this dispensation. It will apply again during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:14) as a witness to the impending return of Jesus Christ (“prepare ye the way”) to save the nation of Israel from her enemies and establish His kingdom on earth, which will usher in the next dispensation. The church, the body of Christ, which was saved by the gospel of grace (that’s us), is removed from the earth before the Tribulation dispensation even begins because we aren’t appointed to wrath (1 Thess. 5:9). And, 2 Thess. 2:7 says that “he” that is preventing the reveal of the Antichrist must be taken out of the way first, i.e. removed, before “that Wicked be revealed” (2 Thess. 2:8).
For our “ensample” of this, we can look back to the impending destruction of the cities of the plain - Sodom and Gomorrah. As you likely recall, three angels visited Abraham and Sarah in the plains of Mamre, and God told Abraham that the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah was great because their sin was very grievious. He had sent His angels to confirm that the cry was true; and, if so, the cities of the plain would be destroyed (Genesis 18:1-22). But Abraham was concerned about his nephew, Lot, and his family and began a succession of inquiries to God as to whether God would “destroy the righteous with the wicked” (Gen. 18:23-32).
God assured Abraham throughout those verses that He would not destroy the cities if He found righteous among the wicked, the last number discussed was ten righteous. So, as the example continues, God removes the righteous that He found in Sodom just prior to raining down His wrath from the heavens in the form of fire and brimstone. Again, I’m citing Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of why so many Bible-believers ascribe to a pre-Tribulation removal of the body of Christ from the earth.
Matt. 24:4-14 explains some of the signs that will be occurring during the first half of the Tribulation. I mention this only because God begins to pour out His wrath on the earth even in the first half of the Tribulation in the form of war, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, etc. And because there’s wrath occurring in the first half of the Tribulation, and the body of Christ isn’t appointed unto wrath, God will be removing us from the earth BEFORE the Tribulation begins.
I believe I’ve demonstrated consideration of your thoughts expressed in your admonition to me, and they’re not supported by rightly dividing the word of Truth.
And this brings me to finally answer the top-level question of this entire thread, “If the Rapture is True, What’s the Point of the Tribulation?”
I cite Daniel 9:24 as the Scripture that answers your question:
To finish the transgression; and
To make an end of sins; and
To make reconciliation for iniquity; and
To bring in everlasting righteousness; and
To seal up the vision and prophesy, and, finally…
To anoint the most Holy.
This is God’s answer to your question, Brandon, and is the “point of the Tribulation” whether or not the rapture is true. However, please note that the church, the body of Christ, isn’t required to be present during the Tribulation in order to accomplish the goals of the Tribulation period.
